פסחים דף עג
Pesachim 73דף יומי שיעור אויף אידיש · פסחים דף עג
Daf Yomi shiur on Maseches Pesachim daf 73 (מסכת פסחים דף עג), in Yiddish, by HaRav Avrohom Karp ZT"L. The Gemara page, Rashi and Tosafos follow along as you listen, with the English translation alongside.
״עבודת מתנה אתן את כהנתכם והזר הקרב יומת״, עשו אכילת תרומה בגבולין כעבודת בית המקדש. שחטו שלא לאוכליו. פשיטא! כיון דהתם — פסול, הכא — חייב! משום דתנא סיפא פטור,…
The same discussion elsewhere in Shas
Pesachim 73: the daf with times in the shiur
Tap a time to hear Rabbi Karp's explanation of that passage.
פסחים עג · עמוד א
״עבודת מתנה אתן את כהנתכם והזר הקרב יומת״, עשו אכילת תרומה בגבולין כעבודת בית המקדש.
“I have given you the priesthood as a service of gift; and the stranger that comes near shall be put to death” (Numbers 18:7). This verse is found in the context of the priestly gifts, including teruma, and comes to teach us that they made the eating of teruma in the outlying areas, i.e., outside the Temple, like the service of the Temple.
שחטו שלא לאוכליו. פשיטא! כיון דהתם — פסול, הכא — חייב! משום דתנא סיפא פטור, תנא רישא חייב.
We learned in our mishna that if one unwittingly slaughtered the Paschal lamb on Shabbat for those who cannot eat it or for those who did not register for it, he is liable to bring a sin-offering. The Gemara asks: It is obvious. Since there, with regard to the slaughter itself, it is invalid, here, with regard to Shabbat, he is liable, for it turns out that he performed a prohibited labor that was not necessary for sacrificing an offering. The Gemara answers: Since the latter clause of the mishna taught cases in which he is exempt from bringing a sin-offering, the first clause taught cases in which he is liable, even though it does not really teach us anything new.
והא נמי פשיטא, משום דהתם כשר, הכא פטור! אלא, איידי דתנא שחטו שלא לשמו בשבת, תנא נמי שלא לאוכליו. והיא גופא למה לי?
The Gemara asks: But this also is obvious, since there, the offering is valid, here with regard to Shabbat he is exempt, as the slaughter did not involve a desecration of Shabbat. Rather, since the mishna taught the case of one who slaughtered the Paschal lamb for a different purpose on Shabbat, it also taught the case of one who slaughtered it for those who cannot eat it. The Gemara asks further: And it itself, the case of slaughtering the Paschal offering for a different purpose, why do I need it? The halakha there is also obvious. The Gemara answers: Since the mishna wished to teach the dispute between Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Yehoshua, it taught all these other halakhot as well.
משום דקבעי לאיפלוגי רבי אליעזר ורבי יהושע.
אמר ליה רב הונא בר חיננא לבריה: כי אזלת לקמיה דרבי זריקא, בעי מיניה: לדברי האומר ״מקלקל בחבורה — פטור״, ״שחטו שלא לאוכליו — חייב״? מה תיקן?!
The Gemara relates that Rav Huna bar Ḥinnana said to his son: When you go before Rabbi Zerika, ask him: According to the opinion that says that one who inflicts a destructive wound is exempt, i.e., that one who causes a wound on Shabbat that has no constructive effect but rather is purely destructive in nature has not performed a prohibited labor and is therefore exempt from bringing a sin-offering, how are we to understand the mishna’s ruling that one who slaughtered the Paschal lamb for those who cannot eat it is liable? Since the slaughter is invalid, he should be seen as having wounded the animal in a way that brings no benefit and is simply destructive. What has he improved through the slaughter that he should be liable for having performed a prohibited labor?
תיקן אם עלו לא ירדו.
The Gemara answers: He has improved it in that if the sacrificial parts of the offering ascended to the top of the altar, they do not descend. The halakha is that if the sacrificial parts of a disqualified offering are inadvertently brought up to the top of the altar, they need not be removed and they may be burned on the altar. Thus, the slaughter had some constructive effect.
שחטו ונמצא בעל מום חייב, מה תיקן? תיקן בדוקין שבעין, ואליבא דרבי עקיבא דאמר אם עלו לא ירדו.
The Gemara asks further: We learned in the mishna that if one slaughtered the Paschal lamb and it was found to have a blemish, he is liable to bring a sin-offering. Here too, it may be asked: What has he improved through the slaughter, so that he should be liable? The Gemara answers: He has improved it if the blemish was small, e.g., if it was on the animal’s eyelid, and in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Akiva, who said that in the case of an offering with such a small blemish, if its sacrificial parts ascended to the top of the altar, they do not descend from it, because it is not a disgrace to the altar for the sacrificial parts of such an offering to be burned on it.
שחטו ונמצא טריפה בסתר — פטור. הא בגלוי — חייב. מה תיקן? תיקן להוציא מידי נבילה.
We learned in the next clause of our mishna that if one slaughtered the Paschal lamb and it was found to have a hidden condition that would cause it to die within twelve months [tereifa], he is exempt from bringing a sin-offering. The mishna’s wording indicates that if the animal’s condition is visible, its owner is liable. It may be asked: What has he improved by slaughtering an animal with a such a condition? The Gemara answers: He has improved it in that he removed it from the category of an animal carcass [neveila], i.e., an animal that died of natural causes or as the result of an improperly carried out act of ritual slaughter. Had the animal died on its own it would have been treated as a neveila, which is a primary source of ritual impurity, rendering those who touch or carry it ritually impure. Proper slaughter of the animal prevents it from falling into that category and imparting ritual impurity.
מתקיף לה רבינא: הא דתניא: השוחט חטאת בשבת בחוץ לעבודה זרה — חייב עליה שלש חטאות, מה תיקן?
Ravina strongly objects to this: With regard to that which was taught elsewhere in a baraita, that one who unwittingly slaughters a sin-offering on Shabbat outside the Temple for the sake of idolatry is liable to bring three sin-offerings for it: For desecrating Shabbat, for slaughtering an offering outside the Temple, and for practicing idolatry; here too, the question may be raised: What has he improved by slaughtering the animal? Here we cannot answer that he removed it from the category of an animal carcass and prevented it from becoming a primary source of ritual impurity, because any animal that was used as an idolatrous offering imparts ritual impurity. Therefore, it would seem that the slaughter served no constructive purpose.
אמר רב עוירא: שמוציאו מידי אבר מן החי.
Rav Avira said: Even here he has improved it in that he removed it from the category of limbs from a living creature. Even a gentile is liable if he eats meat taken from a living animal, but once the animal is slaughtered there is no longer any liability. Accordingly, even this act of slaughter has achieved a productive result.
שחטו ונודע וכו׳. אמר רב הונא אמר רב: אשם שניתק לרעיה, ושחטו סתם — כשר לעולה. אלמא קסבר: לא בעי עקירה.
We learned in the mishna that if one slaughtered the Paschal lamb and it became known afterward that the owners had died, he is exempt from bringing a sin-offering. Rav Huna said that Rav said: Regarding a guilt-offering that was consigned to grazing: If the owner of a guilt-offering dies or achieves atonement through a different guilt-offering, the animal is sent out to graze in the field until it develops a blemish, at which point it can be sold. The money from the sale is used to purchase a burnt-offering. And if, before it developed a blemish, someone slaughtered it without specifying its purpose, it is valid as a burnt-offering. The Gemara concludes that Rav apparently holds that it does not require uprooting. There is no need for an explicit declaration in order to change the status of the offering; even if it is slaughtered without its purpose specified it is valid.
אי הכי כי לא ניתק נמי! גזירה לאחר כפרה אטו לפני כפרה.
The Gemara asks: If so, even when it has not yet been consigned to grazing, it should also be valid, for any guilt-offering whose owner has achieved atonement through a different offering is presumably going to be brought as a free-will burnt-offering. The Gemara answers: This invalidation stems from a rabbinic decree with regard to a guilt-offering after its owner achieved atonement with a different offering due to concern about a guilt-offering before its owner achieved atonement with a different offering. Before the owner achieves atonement the animal is certainly considered a guilt-offering; it is only after the owner achieves atonement that the offering becomes valid for use as a burnt-offering, and then by strict halakha it is immediately valid for that purpose, even before the animal develops a blemish.
ומנא תימרא, דתנן: אשם שמתו בעליו או שנתכפרו בעליו — ירעה עד שיסתאב, וימכר, ויפלו דמיו לנדבה. רבי אליעזר אומר: ימות. רבי יהושע אומר: ימכר ויביא בדמיו עולה.
From where do you say that this is the case? As we learned elsewhere in a mishna: A guilt-offering whose owner has died or whose owner has achieved atonement through a different guilt-offering grazes until it becomes unfit, whereupon it is sold and its money is used for a communal free-will burnt-offering. Rabbi Eliezer says: This guilt-offering is made to die on its own. Rabbi Yehoshua says: When it develops a blemish, it is sold, and he brings a burnt-offering for himself with its money.
בדמיו אין, אבל גופו לא. דגזר לאחר כפרה אטו לפני כפרה. שמע מינה.
This indicates that according to Rabbi Yehoshua, as soon as the owner achieves atonement, his animal loses its status as a guilt-offering and it becomes a burnt-offering. Nevertheless, even he says that the animal that is bought with its money may indeed be brought as a burnt-offering, but the guilt-offering itself must not be sacrificed as a burnt-offering. Undoubtedly, his reason must be that the Sages issued a decree with regard to a guilt-offering after its owner achieved atonement with a different offering, due to concern about a guilt-offering before its owner achieved atonement with a different offering. The Gemara concludes: Indeed, learn from it that this is correct.
איתיביה רב חסדא לרב הונא: שחטו ונודע שמשכו בעלים את ידם וכו׳,
Rav Ḥisda raised an objection to Rav Huna with regard to his opinion about uprooting the status of an offering from what we learned in our mishna: If one slaughtered a Paschal lamb on Shabbat and afterward it became known that the owners had withdrawn from it and registered for a different one, or that they had died or become ritually impure, he is exempt from bringing a sin-offering, because he slaughtered with permission.
פסחים עג · עמוד ב
ותני עלה: בחול כי האי גונא ישרף מיד. אי אמרת בשלמא בעי עקירה, האי פסח הוא, וכיון דלית ליה בעלים — הוה ליה פסולו בגופו,
And it was taught in a baraita with regard to this mishna that on a weekday, in a case like this, where it turns out that there is no one to eat the Paschal offering, it should be burned immediately. Granted, if you say that an offering that has no owner requires uprooting from its previous status in order for its status to change and in the absence of explicit uprooting it retains its original status, here too it can be argued that this is still a Paschal offering. And since it has no owners, its disqualification is in the body of the offering itself, because it was sacrificed for no purpose, and therefore it should be burned immediately.
אמטו להכי ישרף מיד.
אלא אי אמרת לא בעי עקירה — מרישא הוה ליה שלמים, פסולו משום מאי — משום דבר אחר, דקא שחיט ליה אחר תמיד של בין הערבים.
But if you say that an offering such as this does not require uprooting, but rather its original status is automatically void upon the death of its owner, and it was a peace-offering from the beginning, as a Paschal offering whose status has been revoked is considered a peace-offering, due to what then is its disqualification? Due to something else, i.e., that he slaughtered it after the daily afternoon offering, which is the proper time to slaughter the Paschal lamb. But a peace-offering that is slaughtered then is disqualified. In that case, however, it should require that it be left overnight until its form decays, thus attaining the status of leftover sacrificial meat, and only then should it be burned.
עיבור צורה בעי.
דתניא, זה הכלל: כל שפסולו בגופו — ישרף מיד. בדם ובבעלים — תעובר צורתו ויצא לבית השריפה!
As it was taught in a baraita: This is the principle: Any offering whose disqualification is in the body of the offering itself should be burned immediately and without delay. But if the disqualification is in the blood of the offering or in the owners, the meat must be kept overnight, so that its form is allowed to decay, and only then should it be taken out to the place of burning. Thus, the baraita that says that a Paschal lamb that was slaughtered on a weekday, and afterward it became known that the owners had died, should be burned immediately proves, against the opinion of Rav Huna, that an offering that has no owners still requires explicit uprooting from its previous status for its status to change.
אלא לא תימא שחטו סתם — כשר לשום עולה, אלא אימא שחטו לשום עולה — כשר. אלמא בעי עקירה.
Rather, do not say that Rav said that a guilt-offering that one slaughtered without specification is valid as a burnt-offering. Say rather that he said that if one took a guilt-offering whose owner had already achieved atonement through a different animal and he explicitly slaughtered it as a burnt-offering, it is valid. And conclude from this that Rav apparently holds that changing the status of an offering requires explicit uprooting.
ולרבי חייא בר גמדא, דאמר: נזרקה מפי חבורה ואמרי, כגון שהיו בעלים טמאי מתים ונדחין לפסח שני.
The Gemara asks: A difficulty arises according to Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Gamda, who dealt with the question whether a Paschal lamb requires uprooting and said that it was thrown out from the group of scholars who were studying the issue, and they all said as follows: Uprooting is required in a case where the owners of the offering were ritually impure with impurity imparted by a corpse during the first Pesaḥ and they were pushed off to the second Pesaḥ, for in that case, they presumably want to sacrifice this animal as their Paschal offering on the second Pesaḥ, and therefore its status does not change unless it is explicitly uprooted.
האי הוא דבעי עקירה, הא בעלמא לא בעי עקירה. מאי איכא למימר?
The Gemara infers from this that it is only this offering that requires explicit uprooting, because it is reasonable to assume that its owners still intend to use it for its original purpose, but in general it does not require uprooting. According to this opinion, what is there to say, as it would seem that our mishna indicates that explicit uprooting is necessary?
אלא אמר רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע: הכא במאי עסקינן — כגון שהפרישו קודם חצות, ומתו בעלים אחר חצות, דהוה ליה נראה ונדחה.
Rather, Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, said: With what are we dealing here in our mishna? We are dealing with a case where they designated the animal to be sacrificed as their Paschal offering before midday, and midday came and it was firmly established as their Paschal offering, and the owners died after midday, such that the offering was first considered fit and then rejected: It was originally fit to be sacrificed as either a Paschal offering or a peace-offering, and then it was rejected as a peace-offering when it was firmly established as a Paschal offering, and rejected as a Paschal offering when its owners died. And the principle is that anything that was first fit and afterward rejected does not return to being fit. The offering is therefore disqualified and burned immediately, as it can never be brought as a Paschal offering or as a peace-offering.
וכל הנראה ונדחה — שוב אינו חוזר ונראה.
מידי הוא טעמא אלא לרב, הא אמר רב: בעלי חיים אינם נדחים.
The Gemara rejects this answer: Is this reason necessary for anyone but Rav, who holds that explicit uprooting is not required? But Rav himself said that living creatures cannot be permanently rejected. The halakha of rejection applies only to animals that were already slaughtered, but living creatures cannot be permanently rejected from their sanctified status or eligibility for a mitzva.
אלא אמר רב פפא: הא מני? רבי אליעזר היא, דאמר: וכן השוחט אחרים לשם פסח — פסול, דהוה ליה פסולו בגופו.
Rather, Rav Pappa said: In accordance with whose opinion is this baraita that adds to the mishna the detail that on a weekday the disqualified offering is immediately burned? It is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, who said: And similarly, if one slaughtered another offering, such as a peace-offering, for the purpose of a Paschal offering, it is disqualified. If so, its disqualification is in the body of the offering itself, and so it should be burned immediately.
ואי רבי אליעזר היא, חטאת נמי מחייב, דהא לית ליה לרבי אליעזר טועה בדבר מצוה פטור?
The Gemara asks: But if it is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, he would deem him liable also to bring a sin-offering for having slaughtered an invalid offering on Shabbat, for Rabbi Eliezer does not accept the position that one who errs in regard to a mitzva is exempt from bringing a sin-offering. This explanation must, therefore, be rejected.
אלא, תרגמא רב יוסף בריה דרב סלא חסידא קמיה דרב פפא: הא מני יוסף בן חונאי היא. דתנן, יוסף בן חונאי אומר:
Rather, Rav Yosef, son of Rav Salla the Ḥasid, explained before Rav Pappa as follows: In accordance with whose opinion is this baraita? It is in accordance with the opinion of Yosef ben Ḥonai. As we learned in a mishna that Yosef ben Ḥonai says: Other offerings that are slaughtered for the purpose of a Paschal offering or for the purpose of a sin-offering are disqualified, as he agrees with Rabbi Eliezer in this regard. It is apparent that its disqualification is in the body of the offering itself and therefore it should be burned immediately. But with regard to exemptions from sin-offerings in cases of unintentional desecration of Shabbat, he holds in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, that one who errs in regard to a mitzva is exempt.
הנשחטים לשם פסח ולשם חטאת — פסולים, אלמא: פסולו בגופו היא, ומשום הכי ישרף מיד, ובפטורי — סבר לה כרבי יהושע.
רב אשי אמר: רב דאמר כרבי ישמעאל בנו של רבי יוחנן בן ברוקה. דתניא, רבי ישמעאל בנו של רבי יוחנן בן ברוקה אומר:
Rav Ashi said a different answer to this question: Rav said his ruling with regard to a guilt-offering in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Beroka. As it was taught in a baraita: Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Beroka, says: If one slaughtering the Paschal offering on Shabbat still has time in the day to clarify whether the owners withdrew or died or became ritually impure, he is liable to bring a sin-offering for having slaughtered on Shabbat, and the meat must be kept overnight so that its form be allowed to decay, and then it should be taken out to the place of burning. What is the reason that its form must be allowed to decay? Is it not because he holds that it does not require uprooting? And for that reason the disqualification is not inherent in the offering, and so it must be left overnight to attain the status of leftover sacrificial meat before being burned.
אם יש שהות ביום לידע אם משכו בעלים את ידיהם או שמתו או שנטמאו — חייב, ותעובר צורתו ויוצא לבית השריפה. מאי טעמא? לאו משום דלא בעי עקירה!
ממאי? דילמא משום דסבר לה כתנא דבי רבה בר אבוה, דאמר: אפילו פיגול נמי בעי עיבור צורה. דיליף ״עון״ ״עון״ מנותר.
The Gemara rejects this argument: From where is this known to be correct? Perhaps it requires uprooting and the disqualification is inherent. And the fact that he requires decay of form is because he agrees with the tanna of the school of Rabba bar Avuh, who said that even piggul, an offering disqualified by improper intent, which is considered an inherent disqualification, also requires decay of form, for he derived this requirement by way of a verbal analogy between the word “iniquity” (Leviticus 7:18) stated in relation to an offering disqualified by improper intent and the word “iniquity” (Leviticus 19:7) stated with regard to leftover sacrificial meat.
דאי לא תימא הכי, נטמאו בעלים מאי איכא למימר? הא ודאי בעי עקירה, דאמר רבי חייא בר גמדא: נזרקה מפי חבורה,
For if you do not say so, i.e., that the baraita was taught in accordance with this opinion, then in a case in which the owners became ritually impure, what is there to say? In that case it certainly requires uprooting, for Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Gamda said that it was thrown out from the group of scholars who were studying the issue: Uprooting is required in a case where the owners of the offering were ritually impure with impurity imparted by a corpse during the first Pesaḥ and they were pushed off to the second Pesaḥ. Since their offering is presumably set to be used on the second Pesaḥ, explicit change of the offering’s status is required.
כגון שהיו בעלים טמאי מת ונדחו לפסח שני.
אלא מחוורתא כדשני מעיקרא: יוסף בן חונאי היא.
Rather, it is clear that it is as he answered at the beginning, that our mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Yosef ben Ḥonai. Therefore, on weekdays the offering is burned immediately, and on Shabbat, in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, one does not become liable to bring a sin-offering.
הדרן עלך אלו דברים