עבודה זרה דף לא

סתם יינם — אסור בהנאה, ומטמא טומאת משקין ברביעית. המפקיד יינו אצל גוי — אסור בשתיה, ומותר בהנאה.

It is prohibited to derive benefit from nondescript wine of a gentile, and the wine imparts the ritual impurity of liquids when it has the volume of one-quarter of a log. With regard to the wine of one who deposits his wine with a gentile, one is prohibited from drinking it, but one is permitted to derive benefit from it.

והתנן: המפקיד פירותיו אצל גוי, הרי הן כפירותיו של גוי לשביעית ולמעשר! כגון שייחד לו קרן זוית.

The Gemara raises a difficulty: But didn’t we learn in a mishna (Bekhorot 11b): With regard to one who deposits his produce with a gentile, it has the status of the produce of a gentile with regard to the halakhot of the Sabbatical Year and with regard to tithe, as the gentile might have exchanged the Jew’s produce with untithed produce or produce of the Sabbatical Year. According to this logic, wine deposited with a gentile should be entirely prohibited, due to the concern that the gentile exchanged it with his own. The Gemara answers: It is permitted for one to derive benefit from the wine in a case where the gentile designated a corner for the Jew’s wine, i.e., if the wine was locked away in a specific place to which only a Jew has access.

אי הכי, בשתיה נמי לישתרי! דהא רבי יוחנן אקלע לפרוד, אמר: כלום יש משנת בר קפרא? תנא ליה רבי תנחום דמן פרוד:

The Gemara questions this: If that is so, drinking from the wine should also be permitted. As Rabbi Yoḥanan once happened to come to Parod, where the deceased tanna bar Kappara had lived. When he arrived, he said: Is there any Mishna of bar Kappara here? In response, Rabbi Tanḥum of Parod taught him the following baraita, citing bar Kappara: With regard to one who deposits his wine with a gentile, drinking from the wine is permitted.

המפקיד יינו אצל גוי — מותר בשתיה.

קרי עליה ״מקום שיפול העץ שם יהו״, ״שם יהו״ סלקא דעתך? אלא שם יהו פירותיו.

Upon hearing this, Rabbi Yoḥanan read the following verse about him: “Where the tree falls, there it shall be” (Ecclesiastes 11:3). Does it enter your mind that this means that the tree itself will be there? It is obvious that a fallen tree lands where it falls. Rather, the verse is saying: There its fruits shall be. The verse is a metaphor for a Sage, and its fruits represent his disciples. Rabbi Yoḥanan was intimating that although bar Kappara may have died, Rabbi Tanḥum, his disciple, perpetuates his wisdom.

אמר רבי זירא: לא קשיא — הא רבי אליעזר, הא רבנן.

In any event, it is apparent from the baraita quoted by Rabbi Tanḥum that there is a case in which it is permitted to drink wine deposited with a gentile. This contradicts the statement of Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira. Rabbi Zeira said that it is not difficult. This baraita, which permits drinking wine deposited with a gentile, is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, whereas that statement of Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis.

דתניא: אחד הלוקח ואחד השוכר בית בחצירו של גוי, ומלאוהו יין, ומפתח או חותם ביד ישראל — רבי אליעזר מתיר, וחכמים אוסרין.

Rabbi Zeira elaborates: As it is taught in a baraita: With regard to both one who purchases or one who rents a house located in a gentile’s courtyard, and they filled the house with containers of wine, and the key to the house or a seal is in the possession of a Jew, so that the gentile cannot access the wine, in which case it is even more secure than when a corner is designated for the Jew’s wine, Rabbi Eliezer permits the wine, and the Rabbis prohibit it.

אמר רבי חייא בריה דרבי חייא בר נחמני, אמר רב חסדא אמר רב, ואמרי לה אמר רב חסדא אמר זעירי, ואמרי לה אמר רב חסדא:

Rabbi Ḥiyya, son of Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Naḥmani, says that Rav Ḥisda says that Rav says, and some say that Rav Ḥisda says that Ze’eiri says, and some say that Rav Ḥisda says: Abba bar Ḥama said to me that this is what Ze’eiri said: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer.

אמר לי אבא בר חמא, הכי אמר זעירי: הלכה כרבי אליעזר.

אמר רבי אלעזר: הכל משתמר בחותם אחד, חוץ מן היין שאין משתמר בחותם אחד. ורבי יוחנן אמר: אפילו יין משתמר בחותם אחד.

Rabbi Elazar says: All substances are sufficiently secured by one seal, except wine, which is not sufficiently secured by one seal. And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Even wine is secured by one seal. And they do not disagree in their reasoning. Rather, this opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, and that opinion of Rabbi Elazar is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis.

ולא פליגי — הא כרבי אליעזר, הא כרבנן.

איכא דאמרי, אמר רבי אלעזר: הכל משתמר בחותם בתוך חותם, חוץ מן היין שאין משתמר בחותם בתוך חותם. ורבי יוחנן אמר:

There are those who say that Rabbi Elazar says: All substances are secured by a seal within a seal, i.e., two seals, except wine, which is not secured by a seal within a seal. And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Even wine is secured by a seal within a seal. And both hold in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis: One Sage, Rabbi Yoḥanan, holds that when the Rabbis disagree with Rabbi Eliezer, it is with regard to one seal, but in the case of a seal within a seal, they concede that there is no concern that the gentile might have opened it, and therefore they permit the wine. And one Sage, Rabbi Elazar, holds that they prohibited even wine that was secured by a seal within a seal.

אפילו יין משתמר בחותם בתוך חותם. ותרוייהו כרבנן, מר סבר: כי פליגי רבנן עליה דרבי אליעזר בחותם אחד, אבל בחותם בתוך חותם שרו. ומר סבר:

אפילו חותם בתוך חותם אסרי.

היכי דמי חותם בתוך חותם? אמר רבא: אגנא דפומא דחביתא שריקא וחתימא — הוי חותם בתוך חותם, ואי לא — לא. דיקולא ומיהדק — הוי חותם בתוך חותם,

The Gemara asks: What is a seal within a seal like? Rava says: A basin placed over the mouth of a barrel that is smeared with clay and stamped with a seal is considered a seal within a seal. And if not, it is not considered a seal within a seal. If a basket is placed over a barrel and is fastened to it, this is a seal within a seal; if it is not fastened to the barrel, it is not a seal within a seal. With regard to a wineskin that is placed in a sack [disakaya], if the wineskin’s stopper is facing downward, this is a seal within a seal; if its stopper is facing upward, this is not a seal within a seal. And if he bends the wineskin’s bottleneck inward and ties the sack and seals it, this is also considered a seal within a seal.

לא מיהדק — לא הוי חותם בתוך חותם. נוד בדיסקיא, חתימת פיו למטה — הוי חותם בתוך חותם, פיו למעלה — לא הוי חותם בתוך חותם,

וכי כייף פומיה לגיו וצייר וחתים — הוי חותם בתוך חותם.

תנו רבנן, בראשונה היו אומרים: יין של עין כושי אסור מפני בירת סריקא, ושל ברקתא אסור מפני כפר פרשאי, ושל זגדור אסור מפני כפר שלים. חזרו לומר:

§ The Sages taught: At first, the Sages would say that wine from the Samaritan city of Ein Kushi is prohibited, due to the concern that it might have come into contact with the idolatrous inhabitants of Birat Serika, and similarly the wine of Barkata is prohibited due to the idolatrous inhabitants of the village of Parshai, and the wine of Zagdor is prohibited due to the village of Shaleim. Subsequently, they retracted and began saying: Open barrels are prohibited but sealed barrels are permitted.

חביות פתוחות אסורות, סתומות מותרות.

מעיקרא מאי סבור, ולבסוף מאי סבור? מעיקרא סבור: אין כותי מקפיד על מגע גוי, לא שנא פתוחות ולא שנא סתומות. ולבסוף סבור: כי לא קפיד אפתוחות,

The Gemara asks: What did they reason initially, and what did they reason ultimately? The Gemara answers: Initially they reasoned: A Samaritan is not particular about the touch of an idolatrous gentile, and there is no difference in this regard between open barrels and sealed barrels. And ultimately they reasoned: When Samaritans are not particular about a gentile’s touch, this is only with regard to open barrels, but with regard to sealed barrels, they are particular. Since Samaritans ensure that gentiles do not handle sealed barrels of wine, this wine is permitted.

אסתומות מקפיד קפיד.

וסתומות מותרות? ורמינהי:

The Gemara asks: But are sealed barrels permitted? And the Gemara raises a contradiction against this notion

השולח חבית של יין ביד כותי, ושל ציר ושל מורייס ביד גוי, אם מכיר חותמו וסתמו — מותר, אם לאו — אסור!

from the following baraita: With regard to one who sends a barrel of wine in the hands of a Samaritan, or a barrel of fish brine or a barrel of fish stew in the hands of a gentile, if he recognizes his seal and his manner of closing the barrel, it is permitted; if he does not recognize them, it is prohibited. Apparently, a sealed barrel is permitted only when it is recognizable.

אמר רבי זירא: לא קשיא — כאן בעיר, כאן בדרך.

Rabbi Zeira said that this is not difficult. Here, the first baraita is referring to barrels located in a city; there, the second baraita is referring to barrels that the Samaritan carries on the road. Sealed barrels are permitted in a city because the Samaritan is careful to ensure that gentiles do not touch them in front of anyone, so that he does not forfeit the business of Jews. While traveling he is not concerned, as he assumes that no one will discover that the gentile came into contact with the wine.

מתקיף לה רבי ירמיה: מידי הנך דעיר לא בדרך אתו? אלא אמר רבי ירמיה: בין הגיתות שנינו, כיון דכולי עלמא אפכי, מירתת, אמר:

Rabbi Yirmeya objects to this: Didn’t these barrels located in the city come by the road as well? Rather, Rabbi Yirmeya says: We learned the baraita that permits sealed barrels only in reference to those that are located between the winepresses. Since everyone is found there, the Samaritan is apprehensive, as he says to himself: Now, if someone sees me allowing a gentile to handle the wine they will cause me to lose my profit, as Jews will not purchase it.

השתא אי חזו לי מפסדו לי.

אתמר: מפני מה אסרו שכר של גוים? רמי בר חמא אמר רבי יצחק: משום חתנות, רב נחמן אמר: משום גילוי.

It was stated: For what reason did the Sages prohibit the beer of gentiles? Rami bar Ḥama says that Rabbi Yitzḥak says: It is due to the concern that Jews will befriend gentiles while drinking with them, which might lead to marriage with gentiles. Rav Naḥman said: It is due to the concern of exposure.

אגילוי דמאי? אילימא גילוי דנזייתא — אנן נמי מגלינן! ואלא דחביתא — אנן נמי מגלינן! לא צריכא, באתרא דמצלו מיא.

The Gemara asks: With regard to what form of exposure is there a concern? If we say that the concern is with regard to exposure of the vat, we too expose the vat, and there is no reason to prohibit gentiles’ beer more than that of Jews. And if you say: Rather, the concern is for exposure of the barrel, we also expose barrels. The Gemara answers: No, it is necessary to prohibit the beer in a place where the water used to brew it is allowed to settle.

אלא מעתה ישן תשתרי! דאמר רבי: ישן מותר — אין מניחו ליישן, החמיץ מותר — אין מניחו להחמיץ. גזירה ישן אטו חדש.

The Gemara asks: If that is so, aged beer should be permitted, as Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi says: A substance that might contain exposed water but has aged is permitted, since the poison does not allow it to age, as it goes bad before it grows old. Similarly, if it soured it is permitted, because the poison impairs the taste but does not allow it to sour. Why, then, is all beer prohibited? The Gemara answers: The Sages issued a rabbinic decree with regard to aged beer due to the concern with regard to new beer.

רב פפא מפיקין ליה (לאבבא) [אבבא] דחנותא, ושתי. רב אחאי מייתו ליה לביתיה, ושתי. ותרוייהו משום חתנות, רב אחאי עביד הרחקה יתירתא.

§ The Gemara cites the opinions of various Sages with regard to beer. Rav Pappa had them bring out the beer belonging to gentiles from the store to the entrance of the store, and he would drink it outside the store. Rav Aḥai had them bring the beer to his house, and he would drink it there. And both of them drank the beer away from the presence of gentiles due to concern about marriage with gentiles. The Gemara notes that Rav Aḥai established an extreme preventive measure for himself beyond what is required by halakha.

רב שמואל בר ביסנא איקלע למרגואן, אייתו ליה חמרא ולא אשתי, אייתו ליה שיכרא ולא אשתי. בשלמא חמרא משום שימצא, שיכרא משום מאי? משום שימצא דשימצא.

The Gemara relates that Rav Shmuel bar Bisna happened to come to Marguan, and they brought him wine but he did not drink it. Next they brought him beer but he did not drink it. The Gemara asks: Granted, he did not drink the wine due to the trace [shimtza] of libations, but due to what reason did he refrain from drinking beer? It was due to concern for the trace of a trace, i.e., he did not drink beer due to concern about drinking wine.

אמר רב: האי שיכרא דארמאה שרי, וחייא ברי לא נישתי מיניה. מה נפשך? אי שרי — לכולי עלמא שרי, אי אסיר — לכולי עלמא אסיר!

Rav says: This Aramean beer is permitted, but my son Ḥiyya does not drink from it. The Gemara asks: Whichever way you look at this matter, Rav’s statement is difficult: If the beer is permitted, then it is permitted to everyone, and there is no reason for his son to refrain from drinking it. And if it is prohibited, it is prohibited to everyone, and why would Rav say it is permitted?

אלא, רב סבר משום גילויא, ואזיל מרורא דכשותא וקלי ליה זיהריה, ודלקי מלקי ליה טפי, וחייא ברי הואיל ולקי לא נישתי מיניה.

The Gemara explains: Rather, Rav holds that the prohibition is due to exposure, but the bitterness of the hops in the beer goes and impairs the snake’s venom, so that it is safe for an average person to drink. But a person of weak constitution is weakened further by the impaired venom, and Rav was saying: In the case of my son Ḥiyya, since he is weak, he does not drink from it.

אמר שמואל: כל השרצים יש להן ארס, של נחש ממית, של שרצים אינו ממית. אמר ליה שמואל לחייא בר רב: בר אריא,

Shmuel says: All creeping animals possess venom; that of a snake kills, whereas the venom of other creeping animals does not kill. Shmuel said to Ḥiyya bar Rav: Son of a lion! Come and I will say to you a superior matter that your father, Rav, said. This is what your father said: These Arameans are swollen [zukanei] because they drink exposed liquids, but they did not die from doing so since they eat repugnant creatures and creeping animals, which heat their bodies and thereby render them less susceptible to the venom.

תא ואימא לך מילתא מעלייתא דהוה אמר רב אבוך, הכי אמר אבוך: הני ארמאי זוקאני — (דהוו שתו) [משום דשתו] גילויא, (ולא מתו) [והאי דלא מייתי] — איידי

דאכלי שקצים ורמשים חביל גופייהו.

אמר רב יוסף:

Rav Yosef says: